The Creative Minds of Akiva Goldsman & Nathan W. Pyle

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,320 In this episode of Pop Culture Weekly, I talk with Nathan W. Pyle all about his brand new Apple TV+ series, Strange Planet, and... 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:18,200 ...then I talk with legendary producer, writer, director, filmmaker, Akiva Goldsman all about his Apple TV+ series, the crowded room. Let's go! 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:34,200 Welcome to Pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon from I Heart Radio. Your Pop Culture News, Views, Reviews, and Celebrity Interviews on all the movies, TV, music, and Pop Culture you crave weekly. Here's Kyle McMahon. 4 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:50,200 Hello and welcome to Pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon. I am so happy that you're here with me for another week and another episode of Pop Culture Weekly. 5 00:00:50,200 --> 00:01:10,200 It's a little weird with the writer's Guild Strike and the actor's Strike. We're doing the best we can. I'm trying to find creative ways to keep the show interesting until the strike is over whenever that may be and the actors and writers get all that they do. 6 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:31,200 Oh, and by the way, I'm getting all my strike news from Deadline.com. I love Deadline. You know, I've talked about them before. Deadline is the breaking news for Hollywood. I mean, it's... you know, Billboard Magazine for music. It's the Bible for music. So Deadline is the Bible for Hollywood for movies and series and all that good stuff. 7 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:44,200 So I'm getting everything I'm checking 12 times a day on Deadline.com to find out the latest on the strikes and everything else that is going on. So get your strike news and everything else there. Deadline.com. 8 00:01:44,200 --> 00:02:00,200 Today, I'm really excited because we have two great guests, Nathan W. Pyle, who is the creator of Strange Planet, which is now a brand new series on Apple TV Plus. And it is awesome. I really, really love it. 9 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:27,200 Also, I talk with Akiva Goldsman. Now, Akiva is a filmmaker, screenwriter, producer, director. I mean, he is the consummate filmmaker, really. And you may know him from such things as Batman Forever, or Time to Kill, practical magic, a beautiful mind where he won a Oscar in a Golden Globe. 10 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:39,200 I wrote, send a relevant, the Vinci code I am legend, the divergent series, Transformers the last night, an upcoming Constantine sequel. So much. 11 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:56,200 Oh, and that's just on the film side on the TV side. He's got Star Trek Discovery, Fringe, Star Trek Picard, Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, and the crowded room, which you know I've been covering the crowded room since it, but since before it debuted on Apple TV Plus. 12 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:10,200 Which is based on the 1981 nonfiction novel, The Minds of Billy Milligan by Daniel Keys. Of course, it stars Tom Holland, Amanda Sifred, really, really, really incredible series. 13 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:31,200 And Akiva is the creator of the crowded room. So to really great interviews today, I'm really excited about them, and I can't wait for you to hear them. Let's start off with Nathan W. Pyle as we discuss his Apple TV Plus series, Strange Planet. 14 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,200 Thank you so much for speaking with me, Nathan. I really appreciate it. 15 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:53,200 Thank you, Kyle. Of course. So tell me a little bit about it. You know, so I find it interesting that with the series Strange Planet, you back in the beginning, you actually went to school for theology, correct? 16 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Yes, that's true. Yeah. 17 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:12,200 How did that, you know, I, it's interesting to me because, you know, I think there's so many interesting pieces that come up, you know, when you're dealing with theology and then you're dealing with a series like this, where it takes place not of our world. 18 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,200 How did that influence you in, in Strange Planet? 19 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:27,200 A lot of common thread there where you're ultimately asking, what else and who else is out there? That was a big part of what I've always been curious about. 20 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:45,200 When it came to, you know, studying theology, I realized that so many historical ideas that humans have asked, all stem from the same curiosities that we just, we're flying along on this planet through space. 21 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:54,200 Trying to figure out existence. And we actually don't, we don't really know the answer to a lot of the ultimate questions. 22 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:03,200 And yet, we still have to fold our laundry even as we're thinking about that. So that's, that's a big part of what I think made Strange Planet fun to make. 23 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:23,200 That existential question at the heart of every human at the same time we're drinking, you know, coffee in the morning or drinking alcohol at night, trying to, trying to enjoy the presence of each other, understanding that no one has those answers exactly. 24 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,200 But we're all in this together trying to figure it out. 25 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:38,200 And, you know, going forward a little, you decided you were teaching theology, I believe, and then decided you wanted to dive into the arts as a profession. 26 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:47,200 And you kind of took, you know, not to be funny, but a leap of faith in doing that. And it's obviously paid off for you. 27 00:05:47,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Was that scary, you know, kind of leaving something that's, you know, much more traditional and steady and, and being like, I'm going to jump into the unknown. 28 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:07,200 You know, it was really New York City and the internet at the same time that I jumped into. 29 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:24,200 15 years ago, I guess at this point, I found not just in New York, I found a lot of creative people, but I found on the internet through a company called Threadless, I started design cartoons and create t-shirt designs, and found other artists through Threadless. 30 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:32,200 And I think what I appreciated most was that it is very difficult to be an artist. It's very lonely. It's a year, year independent. 31 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:49,200 You're trying to find your way. But if you find a community of artists, a community of like-minded creative people through the internet, especially that, that can be a really huge boost to not just morale, but to your own ideas of what's possible for sure. 32 00:06:49,200 --> 00:07:00,200 And you created Strange Planet, kind of as like a web comic, which blew up a lot through Reddit and Instagram, social media. 33 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:07,200 Did you ever envision at that time, you know, this is going to be a series on Apple TV Plus? 34 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:24,200 No, nor would I have guessed that I could get to work with Dan Harmon because of it. It was all very surprising. What I did realize was I had a moment there in 2019 where I had to put aside everything else I was doing and draw one comic a day. 35 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:33,200 I had to make sure I posted every single day. And that was a really, that was a big moment for me because I never stuck to anything. 36 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:52,200 Like I had stuck to that really every day, post one comic and took a lot of my time and energy doing that. But that was what was necessary in that moment because that was the moment of expansion, the moment of exploration to make something for a whole year where you posted every day. 37 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:59,200 And that's really I think the secret to how that that continued to expand in that first year. 38 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:14,200 So do you believe that that dedication because I mean doing something every day for a year, except for like brushing your teeth, there's a you know, I mean doing something like that every day for a year is insane dedication. 39 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:23,200 Are those the Michael Jordan hours, you know, that that you believe led you to to to the explosion? 40 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:32,200 I you know, I would never want to communicate anything, but that it was very fun and I was I was still living a healthy lifestyle. 41 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:47,200 But it was it was I think sticking to it. I think a lot of creative people can relate to being a little bit interested in a lot of different projects, which I think you anyone has probably had that experience in life. 42 00:08:47,200 --> 00:09:03,200 I'd like to paint, but I'd also like to sculpt. There are a lot of different ways that that we can go creatively doing the same thing every day for a whole year was creating in a way that actually stretched me in a different direction that I never done before. 43 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:22,200 And I do recommend that kind of dedication not necessarily grind. I don't want to say that word, but dedication to and practice, which I do think really did help me grow in a way that I had never done before because I'm I'm interested in too many different directions at once. 44 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:39,200 And now it's you know, it's coming. It is it is here. The time is now. What is this moment like for you? You know, it's it's an extremely smart series. It is as you said, very existential. We I feel like as the viewers are the aliens. 45 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,200 Right. You know, what is this moment like for you? 46 00:09:44,200 --> 00:10:03,200 It's going to be a lot of making sure that I get a glimpse of the reactions from different corners of the planet. I have to capture these occasionally someone will tag me on Instagram on a story from some other country and so much of the so much of the audiences from the other countries. 47 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:17,200 I just want to know how they respond and how it sounds to them and even some of the languages that that are dubbed in. I'm really excited to see that because I think that's part of what I've loved most about this experience is just learning about other cultures. 48 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:37,200 When I did a comic about April Fool's Day, I was told by some of my French fans that they had something similar but different and it revolved around fish. And I was I was so fascinated to learn like everyone has their own tooth fairy analogous something analogous to the tooth fairy in their culture. 49 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:49,200 Everyone has their own versions of a lot of these different traditions and it just it's beautiful to understand that it's and this is where I am now I'm just learning more about other other people and how they receive the work will be really fun. 50 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:56,200 I love that and I think it's very reflective of the series itself so it's much very much at at proper. 51 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:09,200 I shouldn't use big words because I but but thank you so much Nathan I can't wait for everybody to see strange planet on Apple TV plus. 52 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:20,200 Nathan W pile so strange planet is out today right now on Apple TV plus and it is well well well well worth your time. 53 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:33,200 It's really cool as you heard in my interview with Nathan it's it's really refreshing I really love it and I think you will too and of course let me know when you check it out. 54 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Alright next up the legendary this man is you know he's one of those creators that has been involved with like every big thing ever and so I'm really excited to talk to him for the first time. 55 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:54,200 Let's get right into it my interview with the key the goldsman. 56 00:11:54,200 --> 00:12:04,200 So we're going to talk about the crowded room which is absolutely incredible but I wanted to go back a little bit if we could. 57 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:19,200 To your your incredible career how did you you've done so many iconic works film and TV and how did you get into this. 58 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:46,200 Well the truth is I'm a failed fiction writer mom I you know I I always wanted to be a writer when I was a boy and I was not particularly good at it and I went to undergraduate and then graduate school for writing I got a master's degree in fiction writing from NYU which we refer to as pre unemployment. 59 00:12:46,200 --> 00:13:09,200 And then I spent 10 years trying to sell a short story and I sold not one although I have boxes of rejection notes you know back when they were hand typed and and at a certain point it seemed that maybe I thought screenplay would be easier when I read a book and I took a course by getting rather 60 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:26,200 key and I wrote a screenplay and I got lucky and so people always say oh you sold the first screenplay you wrote and that's a great story but the truth is I wrote it on the other end of thousands and thousands of unsolved terrible pages. 61 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:38,200 Yeah yeah I love when when people say you know overnight success or whatever well yeah you but you didn't see that the 20 years before that of you know sleeping on a bench or something to do your art. 62 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:51,200 You know what I mean indeed I actually do think writing is like sit ups I mean if you do enough of them it will make a difference if you write through enough bad pages you're likely to get to a good. 63 00:13:51,200 --> 00:14:06,200 I love that and for you you know you I mean you've done Batman forever and Batman and Robin what was what was that like for you to get such you know huge lower iconic properties. 64 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:16,200 Well you know it was a very interesting time in a very different time for super hero movies because you know comic books are typically you know I had a recording in progress. 65 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:44,200 I'm a comic book or typically ahead of the curve you know when it comes to sort of presentation of super heroes I mean I think it's sort of caught up now I think Kevin Feige was really instrumental in kind of getting the two to be paced together but in those days nobody quite knew what was acceptable and of course comic book fans myself included. 66 00:14:44,200 --> 00:15:01,200 I think that was sort of darker and and then Holly was a little bit lighter and Tim Burton had done the sort of a great sort of I think sort of the seminal job of introducing a darker tone and more sort of comic book faithful version of Batman to the world. 67 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:14,200 It was like well maybe it's too dark and and they hired Joel Schumacher and I had been working with Joel on the John Grisham movies and he knew I was a Batman fan. 68 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:21,200 So I came in and worked on on Batman forever and that was really a delight. 69 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:31,200 And there's a lot of sort of conversation now on the internet about the unseen version of Batman forever and there really is a longer version which is in fact darker. 70 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,200 Oh wow. 71 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:50,200 And it's all about guilt and shame and all the reasons why Bruce might suit up like that every day and get himself in a situation where he gets the shit kicked out of him on a nightly basis and the idea that maybe that's punitive self punitive and he's trying to sort of work out some of some of his guilt and. 72 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:57,200 I'm not the first person to suggest that but I was probably the first person to get it into movie and then have it cut out right. 73 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:09,200 So that was fun and that was weird and that was intense because that was also the beginning of when movies in that way intersected popular culture in a kind of pervasive marketed way. 74 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:19,200 So there was the seal song and the happy meal and that you couldn't go anywhere without sort of the world reflecting back the thing you were working on which was awesome. 75 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,200 Yeah. 76 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:27,200 And there was Batman and Robin which wasn't awesome and the exact opposite experience. 77 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,200 You know and all I could say about that is we didn't mean for it not to work. 78 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:46,200 I mean you know nobody makes a thing in hopes that it sucks and you know we tried really hard to make a movie that we didn't make and you know it happens sometimes and that was that was no fun. 79 00:16:46,200 --> 00:17:00,200 But you know at the end of the day you got to bring these iconic characters from page to screen you know I mean that's pretty cool no matter how it turned out I think. 80 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:16,200 It is cool and of course what is cool as a fan and as a human is you know you do wander around those sex you know and as a writer and sort of like you know we you know we really did build way manner and the back mobile and the actors were great. 81 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,200 The process was extraordinary. 82 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:35,200 And you have you know gone on to write and produce and direct your first film that you directed I believe was winners tail correct. 83 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,200 It was and I directed that. 84 00:17:39,200 --> 00:18:01,200 It was a book that I love very much novel that I think is extraordinary and I directed it my wife had just died and I did it as a kind of love letter to her and I sort of enjoyed a lot of folks that I knew I'm probably again didn't really know enough to make the movie. 85 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:21,200 But but kind of needed to and was enough to get to do it and so in in its own way it's a weirdly personal moment that sort of because of my particular life experience and career ended up being reflected on. 86 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:46,200 That's beautiful I'm so sorry for your loss I lost my mom two years ago to pancreatic cancer and I similarly did a I'm finishing a limited series called death grief and other shit we don't discuss where I went around the country and the first part of each episode is narrative telling my mom's story on that particular topic you know diagnosis or the funeral or whatever. 87 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:58,200 And then the second half of each episode is talking to a subject matter expert on that topic and it's that's amazing thank you thank you very much hardest thing I've ever done. 88 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:14,200 Yeah, but but most rewarding and so I find it interesting that you know I didn't know that with with winners tail but you poor as you know you pour yourself into this project and it has helped me grieve. 89 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:28,200 You know I'm never going to get over that loss I was very close with my mom and I'll be grieving the rest of my life but as a creative and I'm sure it was similar for you I had to put that energy somewhere or I wouldn't have survived. 90 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,200 Yes, that's what I did. 91 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:50,200 Yes, and I you know and I do think that that activity that the sort of the the transmutation of the pain into something that you share with other people moves the grief you know shifts it into a different place and so you do keep it but it becomes an artifact of your insights you know rather than this whole. 92 00:19:50,200 --> 00:20:19,200 And I know for me honestly my my whole career has actually been sort of secretly about smuggling my own particular point of view and typically my own losses into other people's narrative structures my collaborations our collaborations in adaptation their collaborations over time so a beautiful mind was really about. 93 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:45,200 The group home that my parents found did that I grew up in which was for emotionally disturbed children so I didn't understand that people didn't hit their head against the wall or hang babies out you know or see things flying around outside of the windows because that's the world I grew up in and so I could create a world for John Nash where his reality was subjective but seemed quite real to him. 94 00:20:45,200 --> 00:21:10,200 And crowded room was very much that for me to was a kind of a navigation of my own suffering as a kid and the suffering I've seen around me when it comes to to you know real trauma and pain and what human beings do in relation to this the series is absolutely beautiful Tom the whole cast is is is incredible. 95 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:36,200 I really enjoy how it's it almost is play like for me like you're watching a play rather than you know a series or film or whatever because it's very much contained in a lot of ways and it makes it because of the content it makes it so much more impactful for me anyway. 96 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:49,200 What was that was that no was that was that something that you you know as you're writing this that you went in thinking or did that just kind of come naturally or. 97 00:21:49,200 --> 00:22:15,200 I am a big believer I think just reflexively in these kind of first person narrative objects you know beautiful mind is that I am legend is that where you kind of never leave the company of the protagonist you know and now it's there a little harder to write because there's no B plot and you know but really you know in the in the first. 98 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:36,200 Four episodes of crowded you're just with Tom you're with the character Danny all the time there are no kind of it is fundamentally a subjective reality and the best way to sort of seduce an audience into intimacy right or invite them into intimacy is to get them up close to the lead character so I think part of. 99 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:57,200 That experiences I think it's shot that way I think it's also you know it's built in close up so a lot but it's also the in escape ability of the experience of the lead character which is a little bit more a typical we don't really notice but typically instructor TV movie you cut away the somehow right and then you back and that kind of gives you a breath and it also makes it feel bigger. 100 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:05,200 Stay with the lead and it's more smaller but more intense and so I think in some ways that's what you're reacting. 101 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:15,200 It works flawlessly this the series you know it is. 102 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:32,200 I don't I'm trying not to I'm trying to be spoiler free this is a series that deals with real issues that that so many of us deal with in in ways we might not even recognize or maybe should be recognized. 103 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:47,200 How do you balance that heavy you know subject with not with also being entertaining if that makes sense because it's it's waiting you know. 104 00:23:47,200 --> 00:24:01,200 Look I think the shows a hard show I really do I think there's no two ways about I mean you know we're talking about some of the most painful things that you know that that you know a curve on our planet you know that what what adults do to. 105 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:29,200 Children is about as horrible as anything if what they're doing is horrible like you know there's there's sort of no way around that and and what the human mind does to manage that kind of pain is extraordinary but also painful so part of how the show works for those who think it works is. 106 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:51,200 You become very close to the character of Danny Sullivan because Tom Holland is such a profoundly good actor and he's doing such an amazing job in the show it's really he's revelatory and and he pulls you in and the story hopefully pulls you in and you're walking through life and this incident this. 107 00:24:51,200 --> 00:25:09,200 Crime with this kid and it sort of tries to tease you into thinking it's a thriller and that hopefully gets you engaged enough that then when it reveals itself to not be really a thriller at all certainly not a thriller of incident but a thriller of emotion it's a mystery of emotion not a mystery of story really. 108 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:37,200 And as you watch this kid play again played by top start to understand himself and the truth of the world he lives in you know that is engaging entertaining is a hard word because I think one feels compelled to watch it if one is if it's working I think one is engaged with it I think one is grateful to have seen it. 109 00:25:37,200 --> 00:26:03,200 But you know it's not a light experience and and we knew that going in but I think that the things it's talking about are not light and sort of you know need to be addressed and so we sort of smuggle them into a story and hope that by engaging with the character and the other wonderful actors around it people will become empathetic to those who seem different to that. 110 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:22,200 I love that and that kind of answers you know the final thing I was going to ask you was what do you hope someone that films this I'm ending films this watches this what do you hope the takeaway is in the viewing experience. 111 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:51,200 Well you know I think we made this honestly with a very singular purpose which is to be an empathy gender to sort of create the opportunity for people to see those they might think of as different as not so different after all people who struggle with mental illness are often perceived as other we look at them and we are instantly disconnected you know we don't say they're but for the grace of God. 112 00:26:51,200 --> 00:27:20,200 We kind of go that's different and so when I am lucky and when it's working when I'm often trying to do and most particularly in this piece is to say no it may seem unreasonable to you but you're outside of that person's mind you're outside of that person's experience but if you could inhabit their skin if you could feel their heart the way they do everything they're doing make sure they're not. 113 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:49,200 Everything they're doing makes perfect sense it's just a different reality than yours and to me that's so sorely lacking today our ability to understand other people's experience has been elbowed out by our need to just pay attention to our own and with this loss of loss of empathy comes the world we're living in and so if we can use stories to bridge those gaps between people and make the other not so other. 114 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:59,200 If we could wear a skin that isn't ours are compassion will increase and maybe the things I'll get a little better. 115 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,200 I love that I love that and I think all art should aim to do that. 116 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,200 I sir I could talk to you for hours about your work and everything. 117 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:26,200 I'm here thank you thank you so much I really appreciate your time the crowded room exclusively on Apple TV plus is I I am absolutely in love with it as as a piece thank you sir. 118 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,200 Thank you and come in next project come back come back on. 119 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Happy to I look forward to thank you. Hey care you too. A key of goldsman this guy as I said he is just the consummate filmmaker is involved in every aspect you know of a filmmaking from creating like creating you know the crowded room. 120 00:28:48,200 --> 00:29:06,200 So on Apple TV plus to directing writing producing executive producing I mean he does it all so to incredible interviews today I'm so happy that you got to listen to them and hang out with me for an hour or so. 121 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:22,200 Don't forget to keep on checking deadline dot com for the up to date strike news I am really hoping for a resolution that gets the actors and and the directors and the writers. 122 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:31,200 And everyone else paid what they are do so deadline dot com for all the latest on that. 123 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:47,200 In any event keep in touch with me on threads and Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and everywhere else and let me know as always what you think share the show if you have loved this episode share it with a friend that you think would too. 124 00:29:47,200 --> 00:30:01,200 That really really helps and of course your reviews on Apple podcast your your honest to goodness reviews on Apple podcast help grow the show too so I will see you next week I love you. 125 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:08,200 We out thank you for listening to pop culture weekly here all the latest at pop culture weekly dot com. 126 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:23,200 I had to great interviews today they were amazing and I will say okay to more interviews. 127 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,200 views y'ake. 128 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:34,200 [Music]