Aug. 22, 2025

David Archuleta; Tony Hale, D'Arcy Carden (Sketch)

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On this episode of Pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon we’ve got an absolutely stacked lineup: Tony Hale, D'Arcy Carden, David Archuleta and Seth Worley, Bianca Belle and Kalon Kox, Yeah, try fitting all that talent into one podcast - good luck, Apple Podcasts algorithm!

First up, director Seth Worley and actors Bianca Belle and Kalon Cox take us inside their wild, heartfelt film Sketch - a movie inspired by childhood doodles, sprinkled with Roger Rabbit chaos, and stirred with a dash of Inside Out feels. Then comedy icons Tony Hale and D'Arcy Carden drop by to talk about finding humor (and yes, actual whimsy) in grief. Who else could make you laugh and cry in the same breath better than these two?

And just when you think we couldn’t pack in more greatness, David Archuleta joins me for a deep, hilarious, and surprisingly candid convo. We cover everything: his “lover boy era,” sliding into DMs, the bilingual bangers on his new EP Earthly Delights, and how he’s turned fame, anxiety and faith into an unstoppable creative force. Oh, and of course - tour talk, because David isn’t just bringing the feels, he’s bringing the full-on stage spectacle.

Here’s what you’ll hear in this episode:

  • 🎬 How childhood doodles turned into the film Sketch
  • 😂 Tony Hale & D'Arcy Carden on making grief funny (yes, really)
  • 🎤 David Archuleta’s “lover boy era” and sliding into DMs
  • 🌎 Why David is embracing bilingual beats and his Hispanic roots
  • 🙌 How fame, faith & anxiety shaped David’s artistry today


It’s heartfelt, it’s funny, it’s inspiring - and honestly, it might be the most emotionally satisfying rollercoaster you’ll get without a Disney FastPass.

🔗 LISTEN NOW and subscribe for more celebrity interviews, streaming breakdowns, and your weekly dose of pop culture goodness.


📍 Watch now on YouTube or listen on your favorite podcast platform

🎧 Subscribe for more celeb interviews, streaming picks and pop culture deep dives!

🗣️ Want to be featured on the show? 📱 Leave a voicemail here!

📧 Join the newsletter to get exclusive content, interviews & more once a week! Subscribe here!

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Kyle McMahon's Death, Grief & Other Sh*t We Don't Discuss is now streaming. Listen here!

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Get all the Pop Culture Weekly podcast info you could want including extra content, uncut interviews, photos, videos & transcripts at Podcast.PopCultureWeekly.com

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WEBVTT

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In this episode of pop Culture Weekly, the cast of

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the New film Sketch, including Tony Halen, Darcy Cardin, and

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then the one and only David arch Aletta, joins to

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discuss his new albums. Let's go.

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Welcome to pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon from my

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Heart Radio, your pop culture news, views, reviews and celebrity

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interviews on all the movies, TV, music and pop culture

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u CRABE Weekly. Here's Kyle McMahon.

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NTT Nana Net Hello and welcome to pop Culture Weekly

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with Kyle McMahon. I of course am Kyle McMahon, and

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as always, I appreciate you so much joining to talk

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to me about pop culture. I'm so excited because we

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have a great show today and we've got not one,

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not two, but three sets of amazing interviews, and honestly,

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I don't know how I'm gonna emotionally recover from this lineup.

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We'll be diving into the wild, weird, and wonderfully created

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world of the new movie Sketch with director Seth Warley

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and star Bianca Bell plus later comedy Royalty. Tony Hale

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and Darcy card enjoin me to talk about making this

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hilarious and heartfelt movie. And then I sit down with

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Archie himself, David Archiletta, to talk all about his brand

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new album Heavenly Bodies, and we go deep in faith music,

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his journey with sexuality. Yep, you know we're going there,

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So buckle up, grab your snacks, and let's get into

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it all right. First up, we're gonna kick it off

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with the brains and the brilliance behind sketch. This movie

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is literally like if your trauma doodles came to life,

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but instead of getting detention for drawing in class, you

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end up with a short to be award winning heartfelt

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comedy film. So I sat down with director Seth Warley,

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who has the kind of imagination that makes you wonder

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if he's secretly a part wizard, and with star Bianca Bell,

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who brings so much heart and charm to the film,

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like you'll just love her two pieces. She's just so great.

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So here they are, Seth Worley and Bianca Bell. Thank

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you all for joining me. I really appreciate it. Oh

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thanks for having us me of course. So Seth, if

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I may, I'd like to start with you. This is

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kind of your big feature film debut. Why was this

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story important for you to be the one the first.

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Oh, great question. I you know, I grew up on

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the movies of like spuebergan Za Mecas who framed Roger

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Rabbit in Jurassic Park are two big seminal movies for

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me and my journey towards this career. And I just

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always struggled to get excited about, you know, a first

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feature that was small, and I needed something ambitious, something challenging,

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something you know, maybe bigger than you would expect from

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a standard indie movie. And when you know, I, when

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I was a kid, I had this thing that happen

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when I was I was a kid, and my little

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sister had drawn this picture of her teacher getting pelted

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with arrows and just a comical amount of blood in

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the picture, and she had to see a counselor, and

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the counselor said, did you really want to see this

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happen to your teacher? And my sister said, I did

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when I drew it, I don't now, And the counselor said, well,

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I think you did the right thing. I think drawing

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this was much healthier. It was a much healthier choice

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than actually doing it. And I remember as a kid,

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just thinking what a badass thing to say to a kid,

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Like this thing that made all the adults in your

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life nervous and sweaty and scared of you was actually

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evidence that you are a good person, making healthy choices

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and processing your emotions in a healthy way. And I thought,

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that is the adult I want to be in some

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kid's life when I grow up. And then one day,

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as adult, my daughter, who was in kindergarten at the time,

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started bringing home pictures of just an inventive amount of

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violence and blood and I'm just like, an unprecedented amount

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of gore and blood and parent death. And I'm looking

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at these pictures and I'm going, oh, you can believe

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two things at once. You can believe that art is

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the safest place for violence, well simultaneously believing that your

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daughter's a serial killer. And it's somehow your faults and

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that tension felt really ritable to me, and it seemed

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and I suddenly just that's when the burst of ideas

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started happening, and I saw an opportunity to make something

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that had somehow both the spirit of Roger Rabbit and

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Jurassic part combined along with you know, more recent movies,

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like specifically Inside Out, and I saw it as a

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Tony Hale role and that was very much like the

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genesis of the project.

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I love that. And how did you find the balance

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between you know, an emotional ground emotionally uh and these

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kind of fantastic visual elements. How did you know? You?

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I feel watching the film that you found this perfect

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balance of the two where it wasn't one of the other,

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you know, one more overpowering than the other. And I

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think that was masterful. How did you do how did

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you do that?

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Thank you?

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Well, you know, like the it was a very it's

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a totally complex film, like it's a it's a it's

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a it has several tonal shifts that we worked hard

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to make sure feel organic and real and that don't

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negat each other. And I think one of the reasons

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it works has nothing to do with any of us,

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not to negate the incredible work of our cast and crew,

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But I think that you know, some of the most

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the people in my life who've gone through the hardest

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tragedies often also tend to be the funniest people in

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my life. And I think that when you know as

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a writer, I know for sure when I'm If you

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lean hard enough into tragedy and and conflict, you'll find

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comedy there. Whether you acknowledge it or not is one thing,

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but there is comedy there and the inverse. If you

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lean hard into comedy, you will start to reveal things

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about the human condition. And I have just found that

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if you trust the story in that way, and you

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trust the characters to go to those places, that they will.

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They'll relieve the tension, they'll find their way out of it.

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You'll find their way out of it naturally. And it

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just can be this beautiful, almost a metronome going back

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and forth, you know, and keeping a story moving in

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a way to feel surprising and yet inevitable at the

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same time.

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Wow. And you know, you couldn't have done this film

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without a great cast, particularly the kids, the talented young

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adult Yeah they're some actors. Yes that really it hinges

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on their performances. Right, You could have Tony and Darcy

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and all these amazing adult actors, but if if the

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children aren't doing their part, it all falls apart. And

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and you, you guys, did such a wonderful job with that.

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How did you find how did you cast them? What

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made you say, I want Bianca, I want Callen and C. Yeah.

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I mean I went to my friend Jessica Sherman, who's

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a casting director, summer of twenty twenty two, and I said,

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I need three kids. I need them all to be incredible,

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and I need them in like two weeks. And she

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brought me Bianca Belle and Q Lawrence and Callen Cox,

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who are three talent fueled machines built in a lab somewhere,

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who are also designed to be incredibly delightful, warm, professional

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human beings with really cool parents. And they just embodied

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the characters I had written, you know, be A, you

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know for example, And at some point I will let

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them talk while they sit here and listen to me talking.

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It is more, this is more of just a interview.

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I'm talking now, I'm talking talking.

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I No. I felt be A from the get go

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had this just punk rock quality to her. She felt

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like she played the character as if there was this

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not just like a complex uh maybe like more leaning

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toward more darker thoughts and tendencies like her tastes person

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in there, but that that person was confident and fully

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confident who she was. She was just protecting that person

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from the rest of the world by keeping him bottled.

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And I don't know if that was her intention, but

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that's how she played it. And it was just immediately like,

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this is Amber, this is who's in the movie. And Callen,

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you know, I wish you were here. I'd speak to

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Q too, but Q, well, I'll speak to q. Q.

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Lawrence came in and was like I looked at this

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kid and was like, this kid is so sweet and

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so immediately like sweet and everything about him.

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He says, she's a giant heart walking around.

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I was like, I could watch this kid murder people

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and I would absolutely like want to hug him in

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adoption h and thankfully he didn't murder anyone. And then

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Callen just absolutely crushed the Callen carries so much comedic

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weight in the film, and he played every every line

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like he was a guy lying through his teeth but

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convinced he was nailing it and it.

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Makes this brilliant comedy.

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So i'mnna le I'm gonna shut up and let them talk.

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Well, and for Bianca and Callin, you know, you're doing

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this really imaginative film where you're not necessarily dealing directly

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with another actor, right, How was that for you both,

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you know, doing the film. Do you have any Do

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you have any say on that?

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I mean, yeah, for me, it's just kind of came naturally,

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I guess because I as a kid, I used to

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just make believe all the time.

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I used to just talk.

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To people that weren't even there, and that makes me

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sound insane, but.

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I still do it, So you're fine, I guess, Yeah, it.

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Helps with acting.

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Yeah, yeah, how about for you Cala kind I kind

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of agree with that. I mean, I don't play make

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believe as much as a kid, but yeah, it comes

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to me naturally. When Seth showed us the concept art

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for it, I could kind of imagine how the scene

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would be going, especially for the uh for the scene

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of the tadler where I'm like telling it to shoe away,

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so I kind of know what it looks like.

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I know, like the correct angle to like shoe it at.

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I know like how i'd be talking to it because

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it's kind of just like this silly.

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Little dude almost.

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But one that I did have kind of trouble with

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because we didn't really have concept art at the time

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with a Sharpie monsters, so like I didn't exactly know

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how to like react to it, because I didn't really

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have a good concept art of it.

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Yeah, those were figured out really in the game. There's

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some monsters that are in the third act that revealed themselves.

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But even in that case, it was very much about

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we just kind of try and tell you exactly where

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your eyeline should be, like where to look, and you

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guys would just lock in and you'd nail it every time.

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It was really impressive.

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Yeah, well was impressive.

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Yes, I agree, I was impressed by my own performance.

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Good. I will say, Cal and Bianca, you you both

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did a great job and I wouldn't have known that

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you didn't you know what you were looking at at

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that point. So you guys did awesome. I love sketch

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and I can't wait for everybody to see it. Thank

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you all for speaking with me.

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Thank you so much.

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Zeth Worlean, Bianca Bell. All right, now here's where we

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really get into dangerously funny territory. I'm talking with Tony

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Hale and Darcy Cardin, two people so talented they could

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make reading a grocery list sound like Shakespeare and funny.

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You know, Tony from Arrested Development and Veep, and of

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course as the voice of four Ky and Toy Story

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four and Darcy The Good Place Barry a league of

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their own. Basically, she's in all your favorite shows. So

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they're joining me to talk about scat and the sheer

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joy of making something this really honestly quirky and heartfelt.

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Here they are Tony Hale and Darcy Cart Thank you

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Tony and Darcy for joining mere like gosh, thank you

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for your great voice.

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Can wear shirt shirt shirty trippy.

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Yes, that's kind of sketch vibes. Thank you sketch. Oh, sketch,

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I'm thinking like sketch, like sketchy.

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I'm like it was sketchy.

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But a great thing about the name of the movie

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is kind of a.

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Devil on Tom Yes, I love it. Uh And speaking

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of that, I love the film. Congratulations to both of

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you on that what drew you. You know, it's such

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a for me. I I lost my mom a few

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years ago. I've kind of been in this thank you.

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I've been in this world of grief in the fact

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that I, you know one that but too started a

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project with iHeart about grief, and so I've been looking

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at grief through different lenses and I thought that sketch

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is such an interesting lens to look at grief through.

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Is that why you were both attracted to it? Or

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is there some other you know what, what was it

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that brought you to it?

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Great question? So sorry he about your mom working through it.

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Thank you.

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I know it's a long process, but I think, Yeah,

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the exploration of grief and the emotionality of this script

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was definitely a big draw. Tony Hale was a big draw.

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The largeness of the world and the Okay, it was

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a big draw.

250
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Oh, I get it. I don't know draw. Yeah, but

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I didn't mean that.

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I mean I meant I was excited to do thee.

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Oh.

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And then you know, like the character behind us stay

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like these gigantic monsters, the idea of doing like a big,

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like sort of scary, fun kick movie that dives into

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such like, you know, intense feelings and emotions. It had

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all these pieces that just made me jump jump at

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the chance to work with these guys.

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And so I've been in the I've been We've been

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trying to get this movie made for eight years, and

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we we were championing it, championing, champing, championing it because

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miss campioning Champion champion and think we were champing it.

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And because just the soul that it had of allowing

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feelings to be processed, parents learning from their kids.

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You know, he really thought it was the best choice.

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My character kind of compartmentalized feelings and then he learned

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from his daughter. But also knowing that each process of

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grief is different. It was different for Amber with these drawings,

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but just knowing what Seth could do with it with

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his special effects background, and how it is such eye

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candy and it puts it frames grief in such a

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unique way of I mean not no spoiler, but just

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and also just kind of walking through it and letting

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parts of it go and letting parts of it fly

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and then holding on to Somebody actually said a really

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powerful process of grief was it's like you have a

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rock in your pocket, and right when it happens, it's

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very very heavy. And the more you the more time

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goes by, you get stronger, so it gets lighter.

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But the rock never leaves. That's always there. Yeah, you know.

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So it's it's just things like that, just framing grief differently,

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and this is this movie is one of them.

284
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It's interesting that you say that because I was going

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to ask you both if it contributed at all, or

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if it, you know, did change your outlook on grief

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or how you might handle, you know, a situation like this.

288
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Oh yeah, I mean Tony and I have talked about

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this a lot that we're both great compartmentalizers. I do.

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I do that with you know, bad news, with grief

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with I'm really really good at it have been my

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whole life, Thank you so much. I don't know, but

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I've been trying to work on it, and I feel

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like every time I've watched this movie, it reminds me

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that it is okay and right and good to go

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through these things and feel your feelings.

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And it's hard. I mean, it's understandable, it's not.

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It's not the favorite thing to do it does it.

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It's not easy to feel all this stuff. But just

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a reminder that we're all in the same boat and

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we're all going to be walking through things.

302
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Right do if you know you could be in this world,

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in the world of sketch, Yeah, would you want your

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inner child's drawings to come to life or would you

305
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want today's uh, you know, in her inner to come

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to life?

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I mean, gosh, like our imaginations are so alive as kids.

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I think I'd want my my inner child's ones would

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be a lot more interesting because they'd be like the

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adult ones. Maybe they'd be a little too therapy, I know,

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you know, but the children ones are like much like Dave,

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it's just.

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Like just plunky, yeah and all over the place, you know. Yeah,

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better better movie material for sure.

315
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Yeah.

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And how about how you approach you know, both of

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your roles. I found with grief that we have to

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rely on our support systems, our loved ones, our friends,

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our sisters are you know, our loved ones? Where was

320
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I going with that? You see?

321
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You see, it's a great point because Liz Darcy's character

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is kind of my truth teller, Like she was the

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one that was speaking end of my life and finally

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he kind of opened his eyes. But just those kind

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of nudge is not in a mean way, just to

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kind of come alongside someone.

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Yeah.

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I do love the way Liz is written and that

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she takes it slow with him in the beginning, is

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just there to help and is not in his face

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with it and just sort of reminding him in the

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ways that she does that. You know, if it's something

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as small as cleaning up the house, but what she

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really means is something larger that by the end of

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the you know, when we're getting deep into the movie,

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she finally just knocks the walls down metaphorically with him

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and you know, really knows what, as hard as it

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might be, what would be best for her brother and

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lets him know.

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Do you find as actors, you guys have both done

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so many things in your careers, do you find it

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creatively more challenging when you're facing something that's not really

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in front of you.

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I think, yeah, it is challenging. We've talked about this

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a little bit on this movie, because there's so much

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of it was you know, had to be in our

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imagination that somehow this one was easier to do for

348
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me than others because of seth our director and writers

349
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like sort of he had such a clear view of

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what this world was going to look like, and it

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was so easy for him to describe and honestly was

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in the script. And we saw some pictures and it

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really felt like I knew what I was seeing and

354
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looking at. And but that is like a leap of faith,

355
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and you do have to put a lot of confidence

356
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and faith into your captain and he really beyond rose

357
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to the occasion. But yeah, I mean it is a

358
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little it can be a little technically challenging to act

359
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with something that.

360
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Yeah, very There's also the component of, you know, when

361
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you're in a business and people are like, all right,

362
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let's make it real and make it subtle and stuff

363
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like that, and then when somebody goes, okay, there's a

364
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large blue, fuzzy mutt and you just go like, oh, yeah, yeah,

365
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subtlety up there.

366
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:06.839
Yeah, k your mind. Yeah, how would you react to that?

367
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.880
It's like, oh that's I lose my mind. Yeah. Yeah,

368
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Thank you both so much. I really really love sketch.

369
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Uh.

370
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It's so deeply layered and so just it's so good

371
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on every layer. And I thank you both for speaking

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with me. I can't wait for everybody to see it.

373
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Thanks so much.

374
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She kind to yourself man during this process.

375
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:30.799
Thank you, Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Tony Allen,

376
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Darcy Carden. All right, we've got more Pop Culture Weekly

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coming up, so don't go anywhere because when we come

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back in sixty seconds, my conversation with David Archa, let

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us starts and it gets real, like call your best friend,

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the process, it real stick around see in sixty all right,

381
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thank you for supporting our sponsors. We are back and

382
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I am so excited for this one. David Archiletta first

383
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stole our hearts on American Idol and now he's back

384
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with a stunning new album called Heavenly Bodies. But our

385
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conversation went way beyond the music. We talk about his

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personal journey with faith, embracing his sexuality, and what it

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means to live authentically while creating art that connects with

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people on a soul deep level. Here he is David Archiletta. So,

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welcome to Pop Culture Weekly, David arch Aletta. I really

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appreciate you talking to me, David.

391
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:36.559
Good to be with you.

392
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Kyle, Thank you. So we're going to talk about your

393
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upcoming new album, Earthly Delights, coming out in a couple

394
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of weeks, but if you don't mind, I'd like to

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go back first and then we'll come back.

396
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Sure.

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So, what would you say to sixteen year old David

398
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coming off of that American Idol stage today? Oh?

399
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:00.480
Well, would I say to him?

400
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:01.519
Man?

401
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:10.039
Well, I would say to him. I was making some

402
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:14.119
tiktoks about this, actually, so, but I haven't released them yet.

403
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But I would say to him that you care so

404
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:24.319
much about pleasing other people and wanting them to be

405
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:29.799
happy with you, and it's okay. It's okay to disappoint people.

406
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It's okay to not be what they expect you to be,

407
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.640
and it's okay to say no and give yourself some

408
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healthy boundaries. Even though you'll feel bad about it, It'll

409
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.839
be it's fine. You know, they'll get over it and

410
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.119
you'll feel a lot better about yourself.

411
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:50.400
Would you would you do it again? You know, if

412
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.039
you were if you could do it or not do

413
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:54.880
it again, would you do American Idol again?

414
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.319
I've always called it a once in a lifetime experience

415
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.400
for me. I mean if I hadn't done it, then yeah,

416
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:05.960
I would. I would do it again, and I guess,

417
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:09.240
and I guess probably at this point, I would be

418
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willing to do it again because I feel like there's

419
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something new for me to learn. I'm a different I

420
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.480
feel like I'm a different person in a lot of ways,

421
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so it would be interesting to to go at it again.

422
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:30.240
But yeah, I think it'd be fun because I was

423
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:35.599
a very scared I was a very scared teenager at

424
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when I first did it and it would be interesting

425
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to do it now with a little more perspective. And

426
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.039
but who knows, maybe I'll get maybe the trauma will

427
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:46.839
come up and I'll get stage fright and freeze in

428
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:50.519
front of the cameras, because cameras still freak me out.

429
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.599
Like when I like when there's like a red carpet

430
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.680
or a TV interview or TV performance, I get a

431
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.720
lot of anxiety that I didn't used to get when

432
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:07.640
I was before before American Idol. And you would think

433
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.000
that like after seventeen years and doing it all the time,

434
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you'd get over it. But it's for some reason, like

435
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.200
and it's like maybe I need to talk through myself

436
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.440
in therapy about it, and I just haven't yet because

437
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:21.680
it's like, why is this bugging me so much? It's

438
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.000
just a camera, but it's like this pressure like you

439
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.119
go you like revert back to maybe like the first

440
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.119
few times or when it was when you're going through

441
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.920
it during a high stress time, and you like your

442
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.759
body just take takes you back to that moment, even

443
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:40.119
though it's not that moment anymore.

444
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.799
So it's like PTSD.

445
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:48.000
Yeah, like it's yeah, I I it probably isn't a

446
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.599
like a kind of way. I'd said that before, but

447
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.519
like I had all these people getting pissed off at me.

448
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:56.480
They're like you, I as served in the army. You

449
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.599
don't know what PTSD is like. And I'm like, you know,

450
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.720
I'm not invalidating your experience at all. I just don't

451
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.000
know what other term to use for what I'm describing

452
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.759
right now. It's like you get this anxiety attack and

453
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.559
relive a moment that happened a long time ago, but

454
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:17.039
you still can't separate your mind and your body from associating.

455
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.440
You know, whatever's trick causing you to it's triggering you

456
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:24.480
to go back to that place and react the same

457
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.400
way even though it's happened so long ago. And how

458
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.240
to separate yourself I don't know, but you know, I'm

459
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.480
sure there's a way, but you know, I still do it.

460
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.039
I think I've learned. You know, Ken my publicist suits

461
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.640
on the call too. It's like he you know, there

462
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:43.440
are moments where I'm on the carpet I just need

463
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:45.839
to like take a moment and just like calm myself down.

464
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.480
I'm just like like crouched and just feel like I'm

465
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:51.279
in my own little world for a little bit because

466
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.880
you don't know your bias, saying like it's the end

467
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:57.720
of the world, the worst thing's good about to happen,

468
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.319
and your life's at stake, and it's like why, Like

469
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.319
you're thinking logically, why there's nothing terrible that's happening, but

470
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:07.920
you can't. You don't know how to tell your body

471
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:10.039
that it doesn't it's not in survival.

472
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:10.160
Mode right now.

473
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:15.799
Yeah it's weird, but yeah, seventeen years still, seventeen years later,

474
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.720
still it'll still happen. And I don't know why, but

475
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.119
I'm sure you know, I it's not enough to be

476
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.920
detrimental to my life or anything.

477
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.079
It's interesting that you say that about the kind of

478
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.559
freak out the panic. I've you know, dealt with panic

479
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.839
disordered my entire life. And the best thing that I

480
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:39.799
ever learned from anybody on this was my therapist. I

481
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:41.319
would always tell her like, I feel like I'm going

482
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.160
to freak out sometimes and she's like, well, what do

483
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.720
you mean, And I'm like, well, I don't know like

484
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.559
what that means, but I just like feel like I'm

485
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.720
going to, like, you know, just have this panic and

486
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.599
just like freak out. And she's like, well, what does

487
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:54.799
freak out mean, and I'm like, I don't I don't know,

488
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:56.519
I don't know how to describe it. And she was like,

489
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:59.079
well try and I was like, I don't know, like

490
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:01.680
I'm just making this up, but like run down the

491
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:07.079
street screaming or something, and and she's like, uh, next

492
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.359
time you're starting to feel that way, think about number one,

493
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:14.039
all of the panic attacks that you've had in your

494
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.079
life and what has happened to you. Did you ever

495
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:21.200
run out in the street, up, running up and down screaming? No?

496
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.960
And and then two because it started becoming for me

497
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.640
prohibitive to a lot of things in my life that

498
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:35.160
I needed to do, working with in certain you know,

499
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:41.039
environments and that sort of thing. She had said, You're

500
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:46.720
you're anticipating the this worst case, this panic attack so

501
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.920
much and you're spending so much time on it. And

502
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.400
she said, next time you start feeling that way, I

503
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.920
want you to egg it on and tell it like,

504
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.799
all right, if you know, I'm not dealing with this

505
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.799
all day worrying about having a panic AT's so let's

506
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.480
just have it right now and get it over with.

507
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:05.599
And that was so terrifying to me when she said that,

508
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.799
because I'm like, no, I don't want to like invite

509
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.319
it in, and she was like, just try it. If

510
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:12.720
you're going to have a panic attack anyway, what's the worst.

511
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.759
It just comes sooner than later. And I'm like, all right,

512
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.640
Ever since then, I swear to god, I've never had

513
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:22.799
a panic attack since then. Ever since they just stopped.

514
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:25.839
I still get anxiety or whatever, but I've never had

515
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:29.720
a panic attack since then. So that's what I started doing.

516
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.240
I would be like, all right, you know, I'm going

517
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.839
to have a panic attack about this event tonight. I'm

518
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:37.319
just gonna have it now. I got a lot of

519
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:40.279
stuff to do. I can't, you know, sit around all

520
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.880
day worrying about it. Let's just get it on with

521
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.720
it now. And then it's like, okay, nothing's happening, you know,

522
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:49.720
And then it never comes. So then I went about

523
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.119
my day. It was the most powerful change that I've

524
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.480
ever heard that I implemented in my life.

525
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:56.480
Wow.

526
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.559
So just something you know that I learned that maybe

527
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.960
it'll help somebody that listens or watches this.

528
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:07.759
How cool? Yeah, so interesting too, Like yeah, because your brain,

529
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:14.279
our brains are creating like this feeling of devastation and

530
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:20.240
like so when you allow yourself to kay react, do

531
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.799
what you gotta do then to protect me, and it's like, oh,

532
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:27.640
there's nothing really well it's so interesting. Well thanks for

533
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:28.119
sharing that.

534
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.880
Yeah, of course, So would you ever do if they

535
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.759
ever did an All Star American Idol season? Would you

536
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:37.559
be down to hop on?

537
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:40.599
You know? I was, I was thinking about that when

538
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:42.000
you said that. I was like, what, I'm like, what

539
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:43.680
reason would I have to do it again? I'm like,

540
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.839
probably if they did some kind of throwback All Star thing,

541
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:50.599
and I'm like, that would actually be it would be scary,

542
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.640
but it would also be I think it'd be really

543
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.440
fun because I know a lot of the previous contestants

544
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.200
now I've had conversations with them, We've talked through how

545
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.799
that experience affected us, and so it'd be it'd be

546
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:06.079
fun to go through it again because we like understand

547
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:10.640
what we went through the first time, and it would

548
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.160
be fun. I think it'd be nostalgic and a throwback

549
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.920
and I would I would totally do it.

550
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.960
I think it'd be fun for fans to viewers, you know,

551
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.559
be it'd be a great thing. So, producers, if you're listening,

552
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:30.559
so we're gonna take a quick break be back in sixty.

553
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.000
You've been very open about your faith in your life, uh,

554
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:39.240
in interviews and that sort of thing, and obviously you've

555
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:44.240
been an artist for you know, over a decade. Did

556
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.880
you did you find a place where you feel like

557
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.440
spiritually and coming out and you know, queerness or whatever

558
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:58.960
it's called, or whatever one calls it, uh can coexist?

559
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.160
You know, I feel like I have. It's just funny.

560
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:05.839
I feel like a lot of people have. I've heard

561
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:09.240
a lot of people say this in like interviews in public.

562
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.920
But it's like, you find your own spirituality with things

563
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.880
because when you I feel like, especially when you're a

564
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:21.559
public figure, you get so many opportunities to travel to

565
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:26.799
mingle with other people, and you're constantly given other perspectives

566
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.480
and meeting people who didn't live the same way as you.

567
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.079
And I grew up very very much in like a

568
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:38.599
bubble in Utah as a Mormon and kind of with

569
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.000
this this one way of looking at everything and being

570
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:46.640
told that that is the way for that everyone else

571
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.839
should be looking at it. They just don't have it,

572
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:51.680
you know, they don't have the perspective we have. If

573
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:53.680
they only did, the world would be a better place

574
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:59.119
and so I there are a lot of really beautiful

575
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:03.079
things about it, which community, like everyone pretty much was

576
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:07.160
on the same like level, had the same understanding because

577
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:11.119
everyone shared a common belief and like wanting to serve God,

578
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.160
serve each other, and like this is what's right, this

579
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.359
is what's wrong. So everyone was on the same page

580
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:22.119
of how we were living our lives. And when you start,

581
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.039
you know, when I as soon as I was going

582
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:29.640
on American Idol and touring and meeting other artists and fans,

583
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.119
I was like meeting all these other people who didn't

584
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.240
have the same way of looking at life that I did,

585
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:39.119
and I thought, oh, it's my job to help them

586
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:44.039
see life more the way I do. But I also

587
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:47.839
felt like I was learning a lot from other people.

588
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.680
You know. I grew up Mormon and believing in using

589
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:53.880
the Book of Mormon and the Bible, and I met

590
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.519
people who were like, we we use we don't have

591
00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:58.079
the Book of Mormon and we don't need it, and

592
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.920
we're fine with just the Bible. And then I met

593
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:03.839
people who use the Koran and they're like, we this

594
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.119
is what gives our life meaning and purpose and value

595
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.119
and community and helps me to be a good person.

596
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.960
Then you meet people who didn't believe in any of it,

597
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.160
and they were good people. They're like, you know what,

598
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.119
I have principles that I found in my life that

599
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:21.119
I feel helped me to be a good person and

600
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.960
live a better life and help the people around me.

601
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:29.279
And so I'm like, Okay, my beliefs were pretty specific

602
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:34.759
with queerness because with my beliefs before I really understood

603
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:40.480
how queer I was, queer wasn't okay, and it was

604
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:44.279
something that was something to work on. You're supposed to

605
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.920
have God, through faith in God, have him heal you

606
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.640
from any queer tendencies.

607
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:51.640
You might have.

608
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:56.359
And as I got older, I thought, well, oh, like,

609
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.240
you know, I think my community just needs some more

610
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:04.400
perspective and maybe if they learn, you know, a little

611
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.640
bit more insight on what a queer person goes through

612
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:09.519
and it's not what they think it is, they'll open

613
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.280
they'll broaden their their views on this and how God

614
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.079
may feel about queer people because he keeps making them.

615
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:21.639
But when I saw that, there was an unwillingness to

616
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.480
not just an unwillingness to hear it, but like a

617
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:29.760
rejection of me as a person. From when I was

618
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:31.679
talking to like some I was close to. I was

619
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:35.199
very involved in my religion, and so I'm writing a

620
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.760
book about all of it right now. But when I

621
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.400
saw yeah, it's it's called Devout, I'm excited to release it.

622
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:47.000
And it actually was about you know, I did go

623
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:49.920
through a phase of a process of losing my faith,

624
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:54.559
and it was scary because I'm like, this is all

625
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.280
I have. This has always been what matters most to me.

626
00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.760
This is what's given me purpose. And I'm feeling a

627
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.760
lot of conflict right now because I thought my community,

628
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:08.400
I mean a lot of my community does understand, and

629
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.559
a lot of them don't. And what's hard is the

630
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.320
ones who don't and are unwilling to are a lot

631
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:17.320
of the leaders, because they're like you, if we have

632
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:20.360
to include this, it's going to throw our wrench into

633
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.800
our system of you know, our system is working for

634
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.480
the majority of people, and if we have to consider

635
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.800
how it's not, you know, if we have to like

636
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.199
look at queerness and homosexuality and in a different way,

637
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.480
it's going to throw everything else off. We don't want

638
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:41.880
to do that. And so it put me in a

639
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.400
really tricky situation because I was like, well, I can

640
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.079
still be queer and be a member of my face,

641
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:52.920
and they were it was kind of like, you're inconveniencing

642
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.480
our system by trying to publicly be you in our world.

643
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.159
Why don't you just go find somewhere else to belong?

644
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:01.920
Wow?

645
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.079
And I'm like, this is where I belong Like this,

646
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.719
I've thought this was the only place to belong. And

647
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:14.400
so you have you kind of are forced to look

648
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.079
at your beliefs differently, and you kind of have to

649
00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:20.480
learn how to say, well, why is there not space

650
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:24.039
for me here? And they're like, no, You're welcome to

651
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:28.719
be here. You just have to you have to un

652
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:33.199
you have to not look at yourself as a queer

653
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:36.119
person the way you do anymore. You've got to change

654
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.360
that in order to stay here. And I'm like, I can't.

655
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:42.079
Like I've I've come to terms with this, and I've

656
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.119
been trying to change it my whole life, and I've

657
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.960
learned that that's just not how it works. So I

658
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:53.400
would really love to continue conversation with y'all about the

659
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:55.159
queer experience, because there are a lot of people in

660
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:57.519
this same religion going through the same thing as me,

661
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.760
and they're just kind of like, no, And so It's

662
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.199
like when someone doesn't want to have a conversation with you,

663
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.400
even when you're trying to, and you're even to the

664
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.159
point of like forcing it, and they just suddenly are

665
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:11.719
just like, we're just going to cut you off, so

666
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:15.679
you stop pressuring us into having to have these conversations

667
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:18.480
that we don't want to have. You just kind of

668
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.920
are like, you have to come to terms with Okay,

669
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:23.880
I may not. I just I may have to accept

670
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.679
that I don't this is not the best place for

671
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:30.400
me to exist. And even though they're the ones who

672
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.199
taught me about a relationship with God and faith and

673
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.079
purpose of life, I have to come to terms with

674
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.760
I may have to shift my own way of thinking.

675
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:43.599
And if there is a God out there I may

676
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.239
be believed, I may have to just accept that the

677
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:48.239
God I believe in is different from the God they

678
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:51.239
look at, because they want to say that the God

679
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:57.800
that they taught me does not accept me, when the

680
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.199
God they taught me to have a relationship with in

681
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:04.559
my personal relationship with God is saying you're fine, and

682
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:07.960
I made you and you're supposed to be the way

683
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:11.840
you are, which is why, no matter how many times

684
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.960
and no matter how many years, day after day you

685
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.199
asked me to change you, I'm not going to because

686
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.440
you're the way I created you to be. Even though

687
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:25.719
other people may not see that, I see it, and

688
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.559
that's all that really matters. But it's hard when you're

689
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:36.679
also taught religion is community and and being one with

690
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.320
the people around you, and it's hard. There's such a

691
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:48.679
conflict when your community does not when they're it's it

692
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:56.000
got really complicated. So I consider myself agnostic because the

693
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.119
God that I grew up saying was God is not

694
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:03.159
the same is the one I've gotten to out. So

695
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:08.159
it's that's where I'm at now. So that's a very

696
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:13.000
long winded way of saying it. But I still feel

697
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:21.639
connected to the grant, this creator of life, and I

698
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.599
still like I would still i'd call it God because

699
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.679
I was taught that God is the creator of everything.

700
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.519
So it's like, got the Creator made me, made other

701
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:35.159
people made everything in the trees, you know, or whatever

702
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.039
this universe were in there. It was created and I

703
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:41.679
was created by it as well. And I've tried to

704
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:44.440
change me and what I am a lot, and the

705
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:49.280
Creator said, no, I made you, And I'm like, there's

706
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:52.239
this connection telling you be who you are, and I'm like, Okay,

707
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:53.880
I'm just gonna trust in that and I'm gonna be

708
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:57.599
who I am. And it's not bad, even though people

709
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:00.519
have taught me growing up that it what I am

710
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:03.280
as bad for being a queer person and living my

711
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.960
life as a queer person, it's not. And I'm happy

712
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:12.880
and I find purpose and I'm just moving forward.

713
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.440
When when was if you remember, when was the moment

714
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:21.480
for you where you you realized who I am is enough?

715
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:28.960
Well? I I was still practicing in religion, and I

716
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:36.960
was I was following uh, I was following the counsel.

717
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:44.360
I got that if you just continue to marry a woman,

718
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:50.440
you will be healed and you're you're exercising your faith,

719
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:53.480
that you're following God's right plan for you. And I

720
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.719
just could tell. I'm like, this is this is not

721
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:03.320
going to fix my queerness. And you know, I probably

722
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.559
could have been you know, I probably could have made

723
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.280
it work marrying a woman. But I didn't feel like

724
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.039
I was being honest with myself and I didn't feel

725
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:15.199
like I was being honest with God's plan for me.

726
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:19.199
And it's hard to just explain that to people of

727
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:23.760
faith too but I was trying to reject that, and

728
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.119
I was like, nope, I got to be straight. If

729
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.480
I exist as this, I'm bad. And I got to

730
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:33.920
the point of like I was considering, like in cutting

731
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:38.280
my life short because I thought I cannot accept myself

732
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:43.239
this way. And I there's this time of numbness that

733
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.400
I went through, and I finally got on my knees

734
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.920
and I was just like, God, if you were there,

735
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:52.519
just please change me. I'm so tired of this and

736
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:56.920
I just want to do what you want me to do.

737
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.360
And that's when I that's when I had this like

738
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:01.679
pivotal moment, and it was just like I was like, David,

739
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:05.559
you need to stop asking me this. You've been asking

740
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:09.039
me for over half your life. Now, brain you see,

741
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:11.679
I'm not going to change you because you're nothing supposed

742
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.599
to be changed. And I was like, I don't want

743
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:16.599
to mess up. I don't want to make a mistake though,

744
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:20.159
and and God was like, then, perhaps you need to

745
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.159
make mistakes because you're allowed to make mistakes.

746
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:24.519
David.

747
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.360
Yeah, I give you permission. Go for it. Make mistakes,

748
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.760
and you'll learn that some of the things you thought

749
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:33.400
were mistakes weren't even mistakes.

750
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:34.639
Wow.

751
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:39.920
So that was like the pivotal moment for me. It

752
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.159
was kind of like a like I felt like it

753
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:47.199
was starting over in the most exciting and most self

754
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:50.599
loving way that I hadn't experienced because I always thought

755
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:52.400
I was supposed to hate myself for what I was

756
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:55.679
and that I was doing the right thing by doing so.

757
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.199
And I realized I can live my life and love

758
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.039
myself and makes all the difference.

759
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:05.960
As an artist, did you find that more freeing? You know,

760
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:10.400
as you're going through these extremely personal kind of essence

761
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.559
of who you are moments, did you find that freeing

762
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:16.239
in your artistic work?

763
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:22.480
Yeah? Absolutely, it felt like I became a new artist.

764
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.960
So and it's kind of funny because all the things,

765
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.960
you know, I became flirtier with my music, I became sexier,

766
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.880
and so it's like all the things that I was

767
00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:35.320
told not to do as a Mormon, which is why

768
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.760
this new EP is, the new music is called Earthly Delights.

769
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:41.519
I was going to ask you, actually, I'm indulging in

770
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:44.679
like the earthly, carnal like world that I was told

771
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:48.400
to always avoid and that I was gonna be punished

772
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.519
if I did it and be cast off. And it's like, well,

773
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:56.199
I got cast off basically by before I even did that,

774
00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:59.519
So I'm like, you know what I was. It's kind

775
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.559
of like tongue and cheek in a sense for me.

776
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.360
And it was like, how interesting that when I gave

777
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:08.920
into earthly delights is when I found my meaning and

778
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:11.559
like a real joy and excitement for my life and

779
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.159
I see myself. I feel like I'm seeing myself of

780
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:18.480
the first time ever, and I get to create more

781
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.079
freely I can I express. I feel like it's so

782
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.880
much fun. It's so much more fun to work now,

783
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:28.760
like making music and making these songs. And I went

784
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:30.719
and I was like, I call it my flirty era

785
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.920
that I'm in, but I think deep down I'm a

786
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.400
lover boy at heart, so I'm now calling it my

787
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:40.159
lover boy. It's my lover boy era that I'm in.

788
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.679
But I you know, I was too afraid to love before,

789
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.039
so I it's it's fun to be in a lover

790
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:47.440
boy era.

791
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:47.719
I was.

792
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.199
I was too afraid to be a lover before because

793
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.920
I was like, if I like guys, that's the work.

794
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.360
That's horrible. So I can't love anybody. And so it's

795
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:00.280
it's a very fun, freeing it's a liberating tongue. I'm

796
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.679
as an artist and just as a person in general.

797
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:06.079
Well, Crimberlay, well, first of all our Earthly Delights is

798
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:11.079
your first project in like five years? The ep right Yeah,

799
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.719
and Crimberlay is a bop. I freaking love that song

800
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:15.199
so much.

801
00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:15.639
Thank you?

802
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:20.119
Yeah, of course, Why was now after five years? Why

803
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.559
why is now the time that you're like, I'm ready here?

804
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:24.920
It is?

805
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:30.199
Yeah. Well, my album five years ago I released was

806
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.400
called actually Therapy Sessions. I was going through therapy at

807
00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:38.079
the time. I was I was just trying to figure

808
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:39.800
out a lot of things. And then I came out

809
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.840
four years ago, and so I feel like I've been

810
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:47.159
in this for the last five years. I've been trying

811
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:50.599
to figure myself out, figure out what I want to

812
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:52.639
do as an artist, and now I feel like I've

813
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:58.119
honed into it. And thus the thirty lover Boy era

814
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:04.559
has has arisen. It's like risen out of the ocean

815
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:09.079
and made itself known, and it's it's pretty. Yeah, it's

816
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.880
it's a fun time. It's I've been experimenting with bilingual

817
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:15.559
writing as well, So I've been writing a lot in

818
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:19.400
songs that are both English and Spanish because I'm half Hispanic,

819
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:24.760
and it's just been so fun. I've I've really enjoyed

820
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:26.760
this next chapter.

821
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:32.039
And Can I Call You is another amazing one for

822
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:36.360
as you're doing this project, as it's coming together. Did

823
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.320
you have this lover boy era in mind? Or did

824
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:42.679
it just kind of come like, you know, did you

825
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:44.199
go in being like I'm going to be in my

826
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.599
lover boy era or was it like it just kind

827
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:48.320
of came out naturally.

828
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:51.920
Yeah, it just happened. I was like, I'm going to

829
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.119
be fun and flirty like the Crimbera. I started with

830
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:59.000
crimble A, and just as life goes on, I was

831
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.639
just like, I'm writing all he's like wholesome. I don't

832
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.159
know if like wholesome wholesome, but definitely like sweet because

833
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:08.559
some of them are sexy but still very sweet.

834
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:15.159
Songs like being in love And maybe I'm like a

835
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.760
bit of a hopeless romantic that probably needs to go

836
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.719
to a bit more therapy before you can make a

837
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:24.159
healthy relationship work. But uh, yeah, I am a hopeless

838
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.119
romantic and you know, I love I think I love love.

839
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:33.639
Or the idea of being in love.

840
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:38.639
Not like right? Was that not like a j LO though?

841
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:41.760
Like where it's like, you know, j Lo, I feel

842
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.079
like love's love to the point where she is like

843
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:48.639
every you know, the second she breaks up with one,

844
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:51.679
she's like engaged to another one like three days later.

845
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:52.559
You're not in that.

846
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.880
Oh my gosh, am I a j Low type of lover?

847
00:47:56.599 --> 00:48:00.079
Is it the Latin? Maybe it's the Latin. We're very

848
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:04.199
we're very like I don't know, we can be a

849
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.639
bit all over, but we we definitely are passionate.

850
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.400
Yes, let's say that.

851
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:12.800
And that's what I love writing in Spanish because this

852
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:16.199
is like you can get more passionate and deep and

853
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:22.559
just like that. You know, Hispanics love their they're telenovelas

854
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.360
like they're they're TV dramas and it's always very intense

855
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:31.440
and dramatic, but it's passionate. And I think I need

856
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:35.360
to go to therapy and to not be such a

857
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:39.440
mess by fall in love and trying to get someone

858
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.679
to fall in love with me, because oh, there's.

859
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:46.159
Got to be tons of guys and probably uh girls

860
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:50.679
too that are lined up for to you know, sliding

861
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:51.400
in your d MS.

862
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:56.840
Right, I don't know, I guess so I feel like

863
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.599
my friends, I get a lot of d ms. But

864
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:03.000
also I've noticed that not all the dms come through.

865
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.880
Like someone will be like I d do and I'm

866
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.880
like where, like look and it doesn't even show up.

867
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:12.119
Yeah, it's under like requests or something. Yeah, it's weird.

868
00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:14.519
Oh no, not even the requests. I've gone through the

869
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:16.880
requests and they'll be like, I sent you a message

870
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:18.800
earlier today and I'm like, it's not there, and I

871
00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:21.239
have to go to their profile click on messages, and

872
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:21.719
there it is.

873
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:23.760
That's really weird, but.

874
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.320
It didn't show it. But anyway, so maybe I have

875
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.840
more dms people in my dms, and I I would

876
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:35.599
like more dms, but you know, I wouldn't mind more

877
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:39.079
sliding into my dms. But I feel like my friends

878
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:43.480
who have way less followings than I do, get way

879
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:47.360
more dms people like sliding into the dms, and like

880
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:52.079
really hot and cute people sliding into their dms, and

881
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:53.320
I just don't get as much of that.

882
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:57.199
But well, you're opening it up now, right, Yeah, come,

883
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.480
you know, come slide on into the but on.

884
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:02.679
And I feel like Instagram is a new way of

885
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:06.280
meeting people or in person. I'm trying to like meet

886
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:07.440
people in person now too.

887
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.880
It's well, and you're about to go on tour, your

888
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:13.360
first tour in a while, so you're going to be

889
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:14.559
meeting a lot of people.

890
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:17.719
Right, Oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, I'm like, yeah,

891
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.079
I was gonna ask. I'm like, do you have any

892
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:22.880
you have some advice with like the the panic attacks

893
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:26.239
and and anxiety, Like, do you have any like dating?

894
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:28.920
Like what is what have you learned about dating? Like?

895
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:33.079
Oh, I what are some of the secrets there? I

896
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.880
need like an Avengers team of therapists to tackle that.

897
00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:40.159
All right, we'll work through this. We'll work through this.

898
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:47.840
Yes, So for your tour again, I just like I

899
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:49.719
asked you with earthly delights? Why now?

900
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:58.079
Why now? Why not? Why not? It's it's been like

901
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:05.400
this like religious journey to coming into myself. And it's

902
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.880
also just I feel like I've been in touch with

903
00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:12.599
my body for like the first time ever, oddly enough,

904
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:17.480
and it feels good. It feels good to just feel

905
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:20.239
what it's like to be a human being and all

906
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.599
the emotions, all the feelings, all the hormones that you

907
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:30.599
go through and and just you know, right about it,

908
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:33.760
talk about it. Dance. I'm dancing now. So it's like

909
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:38.840
choreography and learning the choreos helped me to be in

910
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:43.280
touch with my body. So, like if anyone's learned feeling

911
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.639
like they're a little stiff and want to just feel

912
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:50.119
more comfortable in their own skin, dancings of oddly like

913
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:52.760
a great way. Maybe not oddly, but it's a great

914
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.320
way to do it because you go out of your

915
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:58.880
comfort zone. You're moving your body, like maybe you're using

916
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:03.599
parts of your body so that you normally wouldn't and

917
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.440
so you just I feel like you're just more in

918
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:10.199
touch with yourself. So it's and I've learned a lot

919
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:15.360
from my dancers too, just to they just they're they're

920
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:15.880
a fun time.

921
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.400
So we're gonna on the tour, We're gonna see you

922
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:23.760
doing some choreo with dancers, and all right, yeah, that's awesome.

923
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:25.920
What else can we expect?

924
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:30.320
Uh, you know, they'll they'll hear this thlirty lover boy

925
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:34.800
music for sure, and I'll sing some of my old

926
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.360
jams too. You know, I'm known for my song Crush

927
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:41.480
more than anything still, and you know, so you got

928
00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:44.519
to give the people what they they want. I mean,

929
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:47.119
I want to do. I'm not gonna I love I

930
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:49.679
love singing Crush it's the song I've I haven't gotten

931
00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:54.119
sick of singing, and uh yeah, I think I I'll

932
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:57.119
take moments to share a little bit of not too much.

933
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:01.079
I used to. I used to talk way too much

934
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:02.960
in my shows, and now I feel like I've gotten

935
00:53:03.079 --> 00:53:06.519
even that honed into like a system of this is

936
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:08.440
where I talk. I could share it and then we'll

937
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:12.199
have fun, have like some more sentimental, heartfelt moments, and

938
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:16.360
then choreo moments and get people out of their seats

939
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:20.320
or jumping up or jumping on the dance floor wherever

940
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:24.199
the show may be. And yeah, it's really just I

941
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:28.199
think shows are a way of like sharing a journey.

942
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.960
You're telling a story and sharing a journey with people,

943
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:33.880
helping them feel like they're a part of it. And

944
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.920
for me, like I'm I'm in an exciting part of

945
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:39.960
my journey in my life. So it's fun to include

946
00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:44.639
people into it. Yeah, so's it's fun to bring people

947
00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:45.840
along the journey.

948
00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:48.880
I love that, David, Thank you so much for talking

949
00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:53.119
to me. I can't wait for Earthly Delights to come out.

950
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.400
Everybody is gonna everybody's looking forward to it. I know

951
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:59.079
they're gonna enjoy it based on the two tracks, I'm

952
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:01.599
in love with h and we'll be seeing you on

953
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:02.199
the road too.

954
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:05.039
Thank you. Kyle's solo to talk.

955
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.159
To you, Thank you you too. And when your book

956
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:11.920
comes out, come back on Oh I would love to Awesome, awesome,

957
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:19.280
Thank you David, Thank you, Kyle, David Artchiletta. You can

958
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:22.920
get David's album right now wherever you get your music.

959
00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:25.400
And I can't wait to see him on the road.

960
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:29.320
And there's another episode of pop Culture Weekly in the books.

961
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:33.400
Huge thanks to Seth Warley, Bianca Bell, Tony Hal, Darcy

962
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:38.079
Carden and David Archiletta for hanging out and talking with me.

963
00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:41.480
If you love today's episode, make sure to follow or

964
00:54:41.559 --> 00:54:44.880
subscribe wherever you're listening, and hey, share it with that

965
00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:48.039
friend who always knows the latest pop culture gossip. You

966
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:50.280
know the one because they're a lot like you and me.

967
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:54.440
I'm Kyle McMahon And until next time, remember life's too

968
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.719
short for boring entertainment. I'll see your next episode. I

969
00:54:58.800 --> 00:54:59.119
love you.

970
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:03.320
Thank you for listening to pop Culture Weekly. Here all

971
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:05.840
the latest at popcultureweekly dot

972
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:14.559
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